Curse

Armond · Jul 27, 2008, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asplode

Despite what people think he's trying his darndest to figure out why things go to VoD and how to fix the "boring gvg" issue. Best way to do research is listen to us strat for VoD, eh?

Or... use his brain. :/ Is it so hard to figure out that superpowering your offense makes up for the only thing lacking in a defense/utility team build? Hell, eliminating VoD would make for more fun matches than it is now, imo, because you'd actually try to win during the first 18 minutes.

Shorten enrage timer to 8 minutes, at enrage both bosses start firing harpoons at random players/NPCs on the map (other than the other lord) for instakill, one harpoon every ten seconds. Gogo.

I again say the game would be much better if all skills from Nightfall onward were banned, and all non-core professions and equipment were banned.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jul 27, 2008, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armond

I again say the game would be much better if all skills from Nightfall onward were banned, and all non-core professions and equipment were banned.

Wouldn't matter, people would find some AoE skills to farm NPCs with and VoD will still play largely the same.

Morgan Crowe · Jul 27, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

r u iq?

bring trapper + rodgorts invocation. it's basically the same. at least iq played this build because they knew they had had to win VoD (and to turtle

).

Anyway, longer matches (which is bad for the AT system) would help. Who isn't bored of GvG if he has to wait around fourty minutes until the lord moves his ass to the flagstand? But even without this changes splits are becoming more popular. So .. I guess this is a good trend, but ANet has to change the Archer KI, if they are not able to hit the opponent (through walls, etc.) they shouldn't attack. It's just too easy to farm the first NPCs with Ineptitude.

øln · Jul 27, 2008, 04:09 PM // 16:09

I'd rather see much bigger "fraction scores" in AT's for winning before vod. Maybe even having like 3 win before vod games > 4 win at vod games.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jul 27, 2008, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by øln

I'd rather see much bigger "fraction scores" in AT's for winning before vod. Maybe even having like 3 win before vod games > 4 win at vod games.

It takes 2 teams to end a match before VoD, not that hard to drag it out, besides in single elim what would this accomplish?

Fix vod, don't try to work around it in complicated and inefficient ways.

RotteN · Jul 27, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asplode

Despite what people think he's trying his darndest to figure out why things go to VoD and how to fix the "boring gvg" issue.

If that is correct, he must have the IQ of a brick wall, because VoD has not been changed for ages, and the changes they did were far from effective. Besides, like i said, plenty of solutions have been posted already. All he has to do is listen to the people playing the game and base his adjustments on that. Cannot take more than one day to do that realy.

Iotan · Jul 27, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asplode

Despite what people think he's trying his darndest to figure out why things go to VoD and how to fix the "boring gvg" issue. Best way to do research is listen to us strat for VoD, eh?

I usually am on Izzy's side when balance issues come up because I've played with him and heard him talk about issues, but it's to the point where he should just be throwing in new fixes every week. I mean I'd rather see Signet of Might type mistakes than wait 4 weeks for a skill update that leaves most VoD skills still playable.

Tearz1993 · Jul 27, 2008, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asplode

Basically all games minus the one Forfeit and one No-Load game all went to VoD.

No one saw that coming.

Ec]-[oMaN · Jul 27, 2008, 06:01 PM // 18:01

He's trying to figure out why people are building for VOD and not vice versa? Wonder why? Might be because the npc army is way too big come vod, and if a team is built for pressure and the other one is built for vod what happens? Anyone from rawr should be able to chime in and bring up many factors/ideas for Izzy. If we were to cut the number of npcs in half from what they are currently would teams actually stop running so much defense in their builds? or would they just simply bring just enough to counter heavy pressure teams, and hope to spike them out in vod....At least then npc's wouldn't be such a hindrance or threat to teams that opt for lots of physical direct dmg and some degen.

Div · Jul 27, 2008, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehlemming

rawr would have won either way.

I had mkay in top 8 and sup in top 4 though. Prediction RPs!!!!

You just got tomahawked · Jul 27, 2008, 07:56 PM // 19:56

pd should have a trim.

matthew5276 · Jul 27, 2008, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

He's trying to figure out why people are building for VOD and not vice versa? Wonder why? Might be because the npc army is way too big come vod, and if a team is built for pressure and the other one is built for vod what happens? Anyone from rawr should be able to chime in and bring up many factors/ideas for Izzy. If we were to cut the number of npcs in half from what they are currently would teams actually stop running so much defense in their builds? or would they just simply bring just enough to counter heavy pressure teams, and hope to spike them out in vod....At least then npc's wouldn't be such a hindrance or threat to teams that opt for lots of physical direct dmg and some degen.

If you had half the NPC's in GvG, then splits would become overpowered. It would mean a split team could easily dispatch the bodyguard without allowing the opposing team to react. if you wanted less NPC's, one thing you could do is that Prehaps one archers walked per minute to the flagstand from 10 minutes onwards, and come 18 minutes, Normal VoD resumes, just with smaller amounts of NPC's. That would encourage more movement on some maps, such as frozen towards the flagstand, in order to gain an advantage for VoD, and also not allowing archers to mob your flagger every time he comes in.

*lemming* · Jul 27, 2008, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I had mkay in top 8 and sup in top 4 though. Prediction RPs!!!!

Stfu, I had dR in my brackets on all my accounts. :<

DutchSmurf · Jul 27, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

VoD isn't the whole problem tho. There just aren't that many effective ways left to really apply pressure. In the standard balanced build (pre Factions) the mesmers did a big deal of the pressure with their energy denial and the faster casting, faster recharging diversion. Both diversion and edenial aren't even close to their former power.
Hexes, most of all the anti-melee ones, have also been nerved to the point that they aren't worth it anymore. Without the anti-melee hexes to shut down the other team's warriors you don't have enough defense to survive. Most other hexes don't really hurt or last too short to make a difference.
Condition pressure gets stopped by RC. Making it so you have to disable RC or lose. Turning the whole game into a competition between your Signet of Humility (which isn't what it used to be) and their interrupts. And even then it takes time for the pressure to kick in, so you need to get that SoH a couple times in a row.
Splitting is easily countered by a ritrunner with some backup. This is partly because there just are that many npcs that you can't really make a push on the rit. And partly because selfheals are that weak that you need to take a monk in the split, lowering the available offense on said split. It is also hard to get enough pressure going with 2 characters to get any kills. And if you use 3 (not counting the monk), you don't have enough defense in your flag team left.

All Izzy can do is encourage pressure and splitting by skill balances while discouraging VoD play by changing VoD itself. Most npcs can be easily lost. I can understand the need for some npcs, but not this many. All you need is 2 rangers actually, one at each entrance. Make it so that once they get attacked or they start attacking themselves (enemy within range), they give the base under attack warning. If that doesn't give enough time to get back, you deserve to lose anyway. This way you can actually try to win before VoD since you can actually get to the lord. Also means that you can't really fall back anymore. If you suffer a teamwipe just after the timer, it is gg. Which is how it should be. Just turn the npcs back into gank-warners instead of the main force they are now.

Tearz1993 · Jul 27, 2008, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthew5276

If you had half the NPC's in GvG, then splits would become overpowered. It would mean a split team could easily dispatch the bodyguard without allowing the opposing team to react. if you wanted less NPC's, one thing you could do is that Prehaps one archers walked per minute to the flagstand from 10 minutes onwards, and come 18 minutes, Normal VoD resumes, just with smaller amounts of NPC's. That would encourage more movement on some maps, such as frozen towards the flagstand, in order to gain an advantage for VoD, and also not allowing archers to mob your flagger every time he comes in.

This wouldn't fix builds built for VoD, it would just encourage splits (last time I checked those builds are built for VoD)

l Teh Mighty Warrior l · Jul 27, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Izzy was actually on rawr vent the entire time.

And that justifies the terrible servers how?

Snow Bunny · Jul 27, 2008, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Wouldn't matter, people would find some AoE skills to farm NPCs with and VoD will still play largely the same.

[skill]meteor shower[/skill]

Shmanka · Jul 27, 2008, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

And you would have lost to mkay..

Your right, we would have lost to Mkay even though they essentially had a free win, they loaded a damn monk and dom mesmer, what 2 chars would you want to load out of their whole team. We had a HEV mes and a FC water snare on frozen.

They lost, thats how bad they are, I had euro lag the whole match.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jul 27, 2008, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

Your right, we would have lost to Mkay even though they essentially had a free win, they loaded a damn monk and dom mesmer, what 2 chars would you want to load out of their whole team. We had a HEV mes and a FC water snare on frozen.

They lost, thats how bad they are, I had euro lag the whole match.

Who cares about 2v2, you would have lost to them 8v8 and you know it.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Jul 27, 2008, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by asp

Uncharted vs Team Apathy: Torsen had to go to a wedding, so Jaden back on runner, lags out at 5 mins, drops from game at 15 mins, win 7v8 at 28 mins due to GL health.

What was your lord health at the end of that match? [aFk] is made of players all new to high level competition and we didn't know the tie breaker rule at 28 minutes. If we had known I think we had a chance of beating you because we would have red barred our guild lord like you did (if your flagger didn't error then you would have won for sure though).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asp

Basically all games minus the one Forfeit and one No-Load game all went to VoD. Guild Wars.

But do you expect to finish any team you face before VoD when you run that build?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

Your right, we would have lost to Mkay even though they essentially had a free win, they loaded a damn monk and dom mesmer, what 2 chars would you want to load out of their whole team. We had a HEV mes and a FC water snare on frozen.

They lost, thats how bad they are, I had euro lag the whole match.

The players who were left in the match where incredibly stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Who cares about 2v2, you would have lost to them 8v8 and you know it.

Mitch is right though.